Meerkat -vs- Second Inventory

[Muli Basiat]

I know OL wants no browser but its own despite the fact that multiple browsers seem to have no effect on any OTHER virtual world except this one. And after over 6 months listening to promises that Second Inventory would be restored any day, I gave up and let my sims lapse and left OL. But I recently discovered a new browser called Meerkat. http://www.meerkatviewer.org/ It allows you to save your OWN creations to a XML file on your hard drive. You can then restore the XML file on any grid - exactly like you made it - and with almost unlimited linking possibilities. HUGE things can be copied and saved to your hard drive. If OL is set on keeping Second Inventory out (and apparently it is) all it really needs to do TO SOLVE A LOT OF PEOPLES ISSUES (and possibly cause a land rush) is add the ability to the EXISTING browser to import XML files. Such an easy fix for an issue that has chased away so many - and caused so many to decide not to try OL. Oh yeah! Maybe SSO animation will make up for having to leave everything you ever created on another grid... (NOT)

[Alisya Aeon]

Thanks Muli for the info on meerkat... we have left OL ( due to others ) and had a home and furniture business in there. We wanted to get it all out of OL and backed up and maybe in to SL. Unfortunately we can't seem to get in to OL from Meerkat though but will keep trying. But it works in SL.. Glad i keep looking in here now and then or we would have missed this post. *hugs*

[Muli Basiat]

Yes - I posted on OL that they should allow people to export and import their OWN XML files. No reply (they may not have even posted discussion) OL is in a sad way these days - denial. So many have left. I too created a lot in OL and have lost it all - not much of a recommendation for people interested in Openlife huh? Instead of buying 10 or 20 sims in OL I am buying more sims in SL...

[Pantaiputih Korobase]

Muli, it is not your decision and not mine either as to which grid ever allows to back up your stuff. Sure, people leave, but also people come - same as on all grids or in your life, isn't it?
It is simply a matter of taste and/or of visions you are addicted to to be on one grid or another (or on some). If you don'T like it here, I don'T understand why it is such an urge for you to express that all the time.
I feel that your posts are not very neutral if it comes to OL. Not all things work well yet, but there were a lot of improvements implemented recently and yet more are to come that you don't mention.
Of course, you are free to express you opinion or feelings about OL, but - now I need to repeat myself - if you are so unhappy with it, why do you still moan and post here, this is an OL forum, not an SL one and most people here are very aware about the issues and current development of OL?
If SL is your place of choice, ok, we know it already, be there and be happy there. And yes, I agree with you that OL support is not very responsive, is very delayed. Reason for that is well known and at the current time mostly a matter of lack of personal resources which might be normal during a start up of a company. The company needs to weigh out very thoroughly what to invest in at which time. Now seems to be the time for some basic implementations, support to be later. The good thing is that we who invest here are a very nice and supportive community (my opinion) who are very willing to support this platform and help each others out during the ongoing beta period. We have the patience, who has it not, is at the wrong grid atm.

[Muli Basiat]

Actually I post here because I seem to be banned from the OL forums... And I too have many things I created in OL that one day I would like to have a copy of for my efforts. I have heard OL IS A BETA so many times seems like a broken record. Actually I preferred OL - but gave up - as many others have. The reason was not the poor support and lack of service. It was the inability to save anything - I tried for over TWO MONTHS just to save a terrain map of my land - crashed every time - repeated (6) requests for help went unanswered. I suspect OL is glad to be rid of me - but how many like me - & how much MONEY is OL turning away? No one seems to care.

And if it makes you feel better Panta - I only posted about the Meerkat in hopes of offering another way for OL to open up itself to allowing residents to back up their work. For reasons I do not understand - OL does not seem to WANT its residents to back up their stuff... But never fear - I only log into OL occasionally to see if they have killed my Ava yet! They already killed several of my friends...

[Pantaiputih Korobase]

Muli, I am not sure if OL ever promised you to enable a back up of your creations, or did they? If they didn't I can not understand why you demand it.
It is fine to discuss this with OL, but again, it is not your decision to enable it neither it is mine, it is not your grid and not mine.
We pay to a company and while doing this we accept and support their decisions (TOS) and plans for future development. Whenever I have an agreement with a company and am not happy with it anymore in terms of their vision, I just cancel my contract if possible. I can do this with a mobile phone company, with an internet provider, with a VW provider etc. etc.
One simply needs to come to a point to decide what is good for him and what not by analyzing the give and take balance. If it is negative, it is time to take a real consequence......

Lastly for today: a tool to be able to back up ones own OL creations on ones own harddrive would be very much appreciated as long as there could be inventory problems (currently there are none to me), but to spread ones stuff to all metaverses existing is simply boring in my eyes. my attitude is a bit more than just distributing same things all over VWs. I dont need MC Panta on all VWs, I am more into the little differences that count instead of pixel mainstream.

Now you may call me naive, but be assured, I am not feeling bad and there is no need to make me feel better, I feel pretty good without your arrogance, thanks (wish I were native English, could even express my opinion more precise......)!

[Shai]

Panta, even with what you see as a disadvantage in English not being your first language, you express the feelings, thoughts and opinions that I and I'm sure many others echo. And you do it better than I ever could.

Muli - Panta's right. Even though you say you're just putting the option of Meerkat up to OL - it seems that anything you post on either OLX or OL expresses a high level of negativity. I think I've given up counting the number of times you've said you'd had enough and were leaving.

Where your level of creativity would be much appreciated on the grid as your skill and talent with builds is indisputable - you really do need to make a decision where you want to be and be there. If it's in both or more VWs then so be that too, but you can't just look for the bad things to moan about all the time.

As Panta said - those of us who've embraced OL are fully aware of it's drawbacks and failings - but we seem to choose to stay for reasons mostly related to a sort of 'belief' in the promise that OL is.

I think anyone who is in OL purely to make money and on that basis constantly compares SL with OL in terms of profit and loss is deluded. And likewise anyone who has an expectation that OL is to be a full clone of a very very problematic SL is equally deluded.

SL will be superseded in the not too distant future by virtual worlds that are based on a much broader vision and you can bet that such things as inventory interchangeability between emerging grids will get less and less possible rather than the other way around as the technology leaps ahead in different directions.

Maybe in the future there will be full interchangeability - but we're currently at the very beginning of this whole concept and until it reaches a much higher level of maturity there'll be an ever-reducing homogenisation.

I also agree with Panta and others who've expressed the opinion that there's actually not an upside to having the same stuff available on every virtual world out there. One of the best things about travelling in the real world is the diversity of offerings. Things are different everywhere. In OL they're different because we have far superior capabilities in relation to prim use than ever will be available in SL. So products made in OL won't be nearly as effective in SL as on OL in relation to such things as the ability to have a sculpty mesh surface physical instead of its bounding box. Or highly detailed furnishings that would blow a parcel prim limit on SL out with 2 items...and I could go on.

... but I won't because I think most of the arguments have been had over and over again.

I'm happy in OL - and in fact even with the problems - far happier here than I was in SL (which had even more debilitating issues for me for the most part).

Muli - keep an open mind, lower your expectations and just enjoy the ride ... half the adventure is not knowing what's around the bend.

[Muli Basiat]

It is true Shai that I have never used the forums to pat myself or any one else on the back and instead have focused on needed (and promised!) improvements. Second Inventory was promised for over 7 months (any day). I had so many promises broke I am no longer in OL.

From 5 sims to none.

I made friends in OL and feel it has incredible potential. I understand that those still committed to OL find it easy to overlook its problems and make excuses. I actually did the same with my friends in other virtual worlds trying to get them over to OL... The purpose of this post here was to try and get discussion of Meerkat and the ability to allow creators to BRING THEIR OWN STUFF HERE. I see that although my post (same wording as here) was blocked by OL (but not OLX) another discussion of Meerkat has broken out over at OL forums. FYI - I do not use Meerkat - but liked its ability to allow creators to save their work - even complex linked builds.

One last comment on creativity and originality. It saddens me to think that people in OL have become so defensive and territorial. I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but OL has not demonstrated to me to be superior to ANY other virtual world so far (or I would still have land there), and to restrict the creations of the best virtual builders to what they can and have time to create in OL exclusively will truly kill OL. I can build - I am not any better than most of you though - but its time consuming and when you can not even protect your creations ( sorry Panta - I lost 9,000 items in inventory in OL - some created in OL and some imported before SI was banished).

Did OL promise me to be able to back up my stuff? No. It WAS possible when I paid to buy my sims though - and no one warned me it would be taken away in a couple weeks... I am sick of many aspects of SL - and long for another VR that has the potential and promise I thought OL had months ago. I keep reading here - and drop in world occasionally - to see if anything has improved.

Shai I like you and feel your a good person - and I like Panta. Your real love and concern and involvement in this place speaks well for its future. No VR survives without people. In fact, to me that is what VR is about, the people. What drove me away was support - the lack of it - and the inability to openly discuss areas that needed improvement. But what could keep me from returning is not the physical things like bent feet and poorly working sculpts - its people that prefer isolation and protectionism - and insist OL MUST be a different VR than any other. As long as HUMANS are the ones that will be here - all virtual worlds will be familiar..

If it is determined that nothing from another virtual world is to be allowed here I am interested in knowing where you got your hair and skin...

Maybe one day OL will get its shit together. I have been in virtual worlds for over 5 years. Will still be around 5 more years down the road (God willing). I do not rule out coming back to OL in the future - Sakai is is nice guy when your on his good side.

[Debbie Trilling]

" I see that although my post (same wording as here) was blocked by OL (but not OLX) another discussion of Meerkat has broken out over at OL forums" (emphasis added)

Not quite right, Muli.

The Merrkat thread on the OLG forums was started on 24th June, nearly three weeks before you started this thread on OLX on 11th July.

There is no connection between your thread here and the one on the OLG forums (unless you are referring to a thread I don't know about).

A number of us were already aware of the Merrkat viewer before your thread and so didn't feel a need to respond here.

As it happens and FWIW, I personally would support a back-up option in OLG and, at this time, Merrkat looks better to me than SI.

I wish you well, as always, and know that whatever VW you settle down in you'll create a great environment and, hopefully, continue making it available for public enjoyment.

[Tom Shoes]

Panta said it all

[Macphisto Angelus]

OK,
Delving only into the Meerkat end of this discussion (all the rest has been said) I would say it would be cool to have the option there. In it's present form it will only back up items made by the avatar using it. Names much match. BUT.. and this is the thing to stop and consider. Meerkat is open source and it would take no time at all for a skilled coder to bypass that restriction (as the older meerkat did from my understanding) and then we are no longer talking about a personal back up for your items.. but copybot with the convenience of viewer gui commands. That causes me pause. Even integrated into the OL viewer (where the source must be available) leaves that wide open. So, as usual.. the side of me that has many things made and waiting on SL grid thinks it would be nifty.. but the side of me that does not want to see OL turn into another copybotter haven with nothing but freebies or ripped items from SL available does not want it. It may be something down the road in features.. but could it be done now without the ability to turn it into a content theft tool? Not as far as I can tell.

So, meerkat VS SI... I choose SI because of it's closed source perms trigger.

[Muli Basiat]

I absolutely agree Mac! SI is a much better alternative to a method that can steal from anyone. But its old news that OL does not want it here. And Panta is right - no reason to expect much from OL - same as SL the TOS says it all. We own nothing including our own creations and and builds. We play here at the mercy of the provider. I also am a capitalist and as such do not disagree with this model. If anything I am perplexed why OL seems to shun the profit and almost chases away some people! Thanks for posting me OLX nice to have even a small voice in OL still. Miss my sims all the time. Thanks to all who read or replied - maybe we will all meet and laugh about it one day on the grid :)